Ed Young and Matthew Blackman are opening a new gallery, YOUNGBLACKMAN, on Roeland Street, Cape Town. They'll be opening on the 29th of September. Chad Rossouw speaks to them about intentions, sales and controversy.
Chad Rossouw: You guys are opening a project space?
Ed Young: Gallery.
CR: So it is not working on the project space model?
EY: It's a gallery that works on the project space model.
CR: What does that mean? Is it a gallery that works on sales, or something more experimental?
EY: At the moment, I think we just want to start and see. This is all brand new to us. We didn't know we were going to have a gallery two weeks ago. We want to start with some simple bold pieces and not really concentrate on sales. Refresh the city art scene again. Move away from the Woodstock crap. Its nice, this area. It has the Book Lounge next door; the cultural currency of this area, the East City, is growing. So we'll ask for proposals. It will work in the Blank Projects kind of way. We don't have staff at the moment, so it should be able to work as a shopfront window. Something quite bold, offensive. Visible from the street.
CR: When you say you'll ask artists, what is your curatorial mandate?
Matthew Blackman: That's really down to Ed. I don't know how I got roped into opening a gallery.
EY: Me neither. I don't know how I got roped into opening a gallery either.
CR: You can't both deny responsibility.
MB: I deny it outright. What happened was I offered somebody some money, who wanted that space for a gallery. And then for some reason, a week down the line, he handed it to us. And said, 'Well, you do something with it.' And that was never really the plan. The plan was that I had some money that I was going to hand over for rent for a space. And then next minute, a week down the line, Ed and I (and I don't know how Ed got involved in this) were opening a gallery.
EY: I was brought in as a consultant, to help with the logistics of the thing. It’s quite strange.
CR: Well, you don't seem too upset about it.
MB: I'm very excited about doing it. My knowledge of the art world in South Africa is minimal.
CR: Maybe that's nice: to have an outsider's perspective, as opposed to Ed's thorough insider's perspective.
EY: I think we really want stuff that kicks ass. The reason why it operates on a project space model, is that we don't really want to be limited to what galleries are doing at the moment. Very money-orientated stuff. We want to give the artists freedom to make something while not having to worry about sales. Because we won't sell shit. Also to give more established artists the freedom to do that, and not having to worry about their galleries. We want a nice space that really has good work. I haven't been excited by shows recently, so hopefully we can make some exciting stuff. And just be happy.
MB: Well, I'm happy.
EY: I'm sort of happy.
CR: What do you see as your role in it, Matthew?
MB: I'm on a steep learning curve at the moment. I've got this limited amount of money, so I'm the money, and Ed will, I suppose, be the brains till I get more of a handle on it.
EY: Then I'll be the money, and you can be the brains.
MB: When the money runs out, I'll rope Ed into prostituting himself. Who knows what's going to happen in a year's time?
CR: So you have money for a year?
MB: Pretty much. And then we'll see what happens. Hopefully, it'll take off.
CR: Eventually you'll have to change the model; to something sustainable.
EY: I think once one has built up the cultural credit, and it becomes a bit more reputable. But the market is so fucking lame at the moment. It's pointless to try and start opening a gallery with the aim of sales. You're not going to make any, and you'll put on crap shows. You might as well put on good projects.
CR: Everyone seems to be opening up their project spaces at the moment.
EY: Its not a project space, asshole.
CR: Sorry. Their 'project spaces'. Like Goodman for example.
EY: International museums are doing the same. Like the Hayward. I think it is because of the market at the moment, and that everything is so market-driven. To have those kind of spaces where artists have a bit more freedom, and still be associated with the big names. So we're just going to see. We're going to play. Who knows where it is going to go in a year's time? We'll see what the reaction is. Stuff's for sale, but we're not going to worry if it doesn't sell.
MB: It is something I have thought about quite a lot as a writer. In the publishing world everybody is very focused on 'But is it going to sell?' I don't think that is where art and writing should really be. It's not about whether it's going to sell, it's about whether it's worthwhile doing. If I take a massive loss on this, then so be it. Art and writing is more important than money. We're just going to do it.
EY: I'll keep my day job.
MB: Combined we've got nine jobs on the go at the moment.
EY: That's not a joke.
CR: I didn't think it was. I was laughing because it’s sad.
EY: The main thing is to have something fresh. To get artists to think. Stop thinking about sales. We'll do marketing, but not for sales. For currency.
CR: For attention?
EY: We're not attention-seeking assholes.
CR: At least 50% of you aren't attention-grabbing assholes.
MB: Our names are associated to it. But it's not going to be our work. It'll be a space for other people to make what they can of it.
CR: You're saying that you are going to give space for people. But I also know that you, Ed, are very polemic about the artists that you do like. Which is yourself.
EY: I don't even like myself that much.
CR: Where do you find the artists that you like? How are you making that space?
EY: I think to start there are a few artists. And once the tone's been set for the space, artists that I don't like will probably be looking at that kind of tone when they put in proposals. Setting that tone would be ideal. So people know what kind of thing to propose. It could be anything. Fun. Hard-hitting. As offensive as possible.
CR: Like your name. Is that supposed to be offensive?
MB: All galleries have their surnames attached to them.
EY: I find most galleries' names offensive. If you think about Bell-Roberts or Michael Stevenson. Goodman. It's offensive.
MB: It just so happens that it may offend people. That's not why it's there, it is purely an unhappy coincidence.
CR: Why do we need controversy?
EY: It's not supposed to be controversial. The main thing is that the work should be quite powerful. It could be quite pretty, as long as the work is good, and conceptually tight. That’s the kind of work we're looking for.
MB: I prefer to think of it as progressive. We're living in a time were things have slowed down. We need some kind of impetus to drive us forward. If controversy is a part of that, then so be it. Too many people are afraid of being controversial. Artists and writers can't always say what they want, they always have to moderate what they say for the sake of sales. This is a space for people to express themselves they way they want to.
EY: Or the way we want them to.
MB: That probably is where it is going...
The YOUNGBLACKMAN website can be found here.
